Episode 8: Cathy Baer

Adam Cresswell  0:21

Hey, everyone, welcome back. My name is Adam Cresswell and this is Winter Is Coming, a podcast about housing justice in Kitchener, Waterloo and beyond. And of course, we say Kitchen Waterloo because many of us are familiar with it on our Google Maps and Apple Maps and things like that, but this is a territory of the Haudenosaune Anishinaabe and neutral peoples. And today, today we are chatting with Kathy Baer. And Kathy is a member of Trinity United Church, who is one of the producers and partners behind this podcast and is one of the people who has been keenly connected to the issue of affordable housing and housing justice for the past few months. And she is here to chat with us a little bit about her experience today. And so, before we get deep into it, Cathy, thank you for being here. It's awesome to have you and for being willing to offer the time and energy into chatting with us today. And to be able to go on a podcast is not everyone's super close comfort zone. So we appreciate the willingness to join us and try something new here. You've been a member of Trinity for a while now, and something that may have been more relatively new is Trinity's specific interest and investment in the issue of affordable housing and housing justice. Can you talk a little bit about what was your first introduction to the issue of housing justice and affordable housing? How did it first come to your attention?

Cathy Baer 2:16

 That's a great question. And when I think back, it actually dates back to about 2010, and that's when I became a vice principal. 1s And at that point, I was a vice principal at William G. Davis Public School, which is in the Preston area of Cambridge. And in that  role,

Adam Cresswell  2:34

people who went to William G. Davis that I went to high school.

 Cathy Baer  2:37

Do you really? Oh,

Adam Cresswell  2:39

 my gosh. You might have been the vice principal of a bunch of my friends from high school, so that's hilarious.

Cathy Baer  2:46

 It's a small world, isn't it? 1s and in that role, I was really involved with Langs, trying to find as much support as I could for the students at the school. And I also really, for the first time, became aware of the number of students who were living in poverty. It's a very low socio economic neighborhood for some, right close to the school, and that was a real eye opening experience for me. I was then transferred to Howard Robertson Public School as a vice principal, which is in the Centerville area of Kitchener, another low socioeconomic neighborhood. And I remember driving into the parking lot one morning and seeing a whole bunch of mattresses piled by the dumpster. And when I asked what was going on, I was told that it was another family being evicted which was new to me. I hadn't noticed that before 1s in 2013. So just after I had become a vice principal at Howard Robertson, trinity had something called Mission X. It's kind of based on the TEDx model, and they invited members of the community and members of the congregation to share ideas which might help sow seeds for potential mission work and discipleship for Trinity United Church in downtown Kitchener and beyond. So I put my application in and I had a ten minute presentation that was entitled raising Awareness of the Needs of Children Living in Poverty in Our Community. And at that time, I was mentioning to Trinity about a holiday gift program that was run by staff at Howard Robertson. And so our families could make requests for clothing or toys or household needs. And very generously, Trinity United Church financially supported that program for a number of years. And then last summer, officially, 2s really, my official journey into learning more about housing, justice and affordable housing came when I was invited to join the Trinity United Church ad hoc Affordable Housing Committee last summer.

Adam Cresswell  4:59

 Yeah. And as we chatted a little bit before recording this, we talked about the idea that many of us, myself included and yourself included, would not consider ourselves experts in this issue, where folks who attend a local church or are part of a local community. 4s Had this issue obviously come to our attention. And it's been obvious because in the last, I would say year or so over kind of 2021 and 2022, really dating back really, I would say maybe dating back to the start of COVID The issue of housing in in Canada has been a dominant story in the headlines. And I would say from my vantage point and experience, primarily what we're seeing is because the cost of what's called market real estate. So the ability to buy a house or buy property has been in the headlines because of 1s the sort of runaway train of lack of affordability and soaring house prices. But, of course, market ownership and the ability to say, I want to buy a house that I'm going to live in or even use an investment property. That's sort of the tip of the tip of the tip of the iceberg of a much larger and deeper problem that affects many more people than just those who could entertain the idea of buying a house. And so 2s leaning into this issue of affordable housing and housing justice in general 1s probably was a huge learning curve. And for many people listening as well, they might know a little bit from headlines and stories, but be interested or even passionate about learning more and being able to do more. And so it's really exciting to have you on, as well as someone who would say, well, I'm not an expert. Because I think a lot of the people listening today would come from that perspective of saying, I kind of know about this issue, and I know that there's something that needs to be done and change needs to happen. But I'm not an expert, and I don't really know what to start. So, could you chat a little bit 1s about your experience with the Affordable Housing Committee at Trinity 1s and tell us a little bit about what that was like? Maybe what you learned, what was surprising to you from going from someone who's at the outside here, saying, all right, now I'm going to sort of get this crash course to the start of this issue. Can you talk a little bit about that experience?

Cathy Baer  7:49

 Yes, I can. So, in the spring of 2021, the congregation at Trinity determined that affordable housing would be our primary mission for financial resources, for outreach, and that was due to a survey of the congregation. So that June, the board passed a motion to form an ad hoc committee to investigate the continuum of regional housing needs over the summer and consider if we are informed enough to make decisions for support or should engage another organization to act on our behalf and consider how to engage the congregation to become adequately informed for an effective decision. The six-member committee led by Janet Howitt had five other members Diane Vanderberg, Mark Braithwaite, Keith Summers, Dave Rutherford, and me. We met weekly over a span of three months during the summer and reached out to multiple organizations and multiple times. It was clear in our research that there was a great need in Kw and not enough funding or resources. It was very difficult to decide which organizations should receive funding. And so we narrowed down our criteria to organizations that are using the money in a very timely fashion, meeting the needs in the Kitchener Core area, offering more than housing, supported housing, offering funding to groups that find challenges to funding and working. Our mission is to support vulnerable people, newcomers, children, youth, and families. Based on recommendations from our committee, trinity generously allocated $200,000 in October of 2021 to support five organizations $60,000 to reception house for their work in welcoming our refugees from Afghanistan, $60,000 to the working center to renovate their upper floor into apartments. 1s $50,000 to one roof to put towards their new location on Sheldon Avenue, $20,000 to Meno homes to help finish the renovations to the house on Mill Street, a new home for a Syrian refugee family, and $10,000 to Lutherwood to support their use shelter. The ad hoc committee also made several recommendations to the board to consider how to handle granting in 2022. And on November 24 of 2021, the board passed a motion that Trinity develop a partnership with the KWCF Kitchener Waterloo Community Foundation to explore annual disbursement processes for best use of legacy funds for supportive housing initiatives in the future. Dave Rutherford, one of our committee members, reached out to Lynn Short at KWCF to discuss this new multi-year partnership with Trinity, and Lynn was eager to support this new relationship. In February of 2022, Lynn reached out and offered me a volunteer position on their Community Grants Committee. This rule would give me firsthand knowledge of how the applications are reviewed and give Trinity a voice at the table. This year, KWCF had 1s 2 million in requests for funding through the Community Grant stream. In April, the Review Subcommittee started their work with approximately 40 volunteers and over 60 applications to review. I was placed in a team of three to review six applications in detail. KWCF made sure the applications that I reviewed were supporting affordable housing in the downtown core. Our team reached out to the organizations to learn more about their initiative and get answers to our questions. Then we talked through the applications with each other and another team before reviewing each application individually. A separate financial review committee, comprised of accountants and other financial experts, reviewed every organization's financial statements. After all applications were reviewed and evaluations occurred, linked to funds available, another subcommittee conducted a final overall review of the applications through a diversity, equity, and inclusion lens. In early June, the work of the Community Grants Committee was completed, and KWCF proceeded to reach out to fund holders and other partners to assist with funding projects that could not be covered with the unrestricted dollars they had available. 2s Trinity had agreed to be one of those partners and provide $80,000 in support to affordable housing projects. Based on the criteria provided by Trinity's ad hoc committee, we were provided with six applications for consideration. I reached out to Trinity's ad hoc committee and we met twice in June to review the six applications and determine our recommendations for 2022 granting. We selected. The application that focused on the criteria we set out the previous year was inclusive, and we landed on the following for our total granting of $80,000 20,000 to community justice initiatives for their Waterloo Region home share with youth. Program, which, in partnership with Family and Children's Services will house youth transitioning from Care 20,000 to tiny home takeout for staff costs and increased food costs as they continue their work in providing nutritious meals in downtown Kitchener. $20,000. To Supportive Housing of Waterloo show towards a salary for a life skills coordinator to deliver supports and program to show residents that provide the tools and resources necessary to encourage independent living and ensure residents remain housed and $20,000 to Menno homes for their Beyond Housing tenant wellness program that assists tenants in retaining their housing by building on their individual and community capacity to improve their health, well-being and mental health.

Adam Cresswell  13:39

 Something I think I'm really grateful for with the sort of detail and the way you laid it out. Really kind of the broad strokes of this step by step process is there may be folks who are listening who are attending other united churches or any kind of church or leaders in local community groups, whether they're faith based or not, who perhaps have been asking themselves, what can we do? Whether they're in the Kitchener Waterloo region or beyond asking themselves, what can we do about this issue? And I find 1s a lot of community groups and churches 1s kind of know where to start in terms of a learning journey and going, maybe here's a podcast like this one you're listening to right now that we can listen to. Or here's a YouTube video or a workshop that we can attend, or a Zoom session on this. But going from sort of the learning and analysis stage to actually the action stage and saying, 2s how can we leverage the resources we have both in terms of people and time and talent and of course, financial resources to actually start acting? 3s That can be a big gap for folks who want to act but just don't know how to get there. And so I really appreciate the work that Trinity has done in being committed to saying, we don't just want to learn about this, we actually want to be engaged in doing something about it. And I really appreciate you being able to kind of walk through for those folks who might be listening right now from a community group or a church or might be individuals who say, I have financial resources that I want to invest. What do I do? This is a great example of 1s one way that you can build a process to be able to. 1s Support housing, justice, wherever you are. So, yeah, I just really appreciate how you went through that. Can you talk a little bit about what the experience was like, maybe for you personally and for the other members and what came out of the experience? You kind of laid out what you all did, but what was it like to be part of this on a personal level?

Cathy Baer  15:58

It was an incredible experience, a huge learning curve for me. My other committee members, not so much. Actually. I was very humbled to be included, as they are much more informed about mental health supports in our community and much more informed about affordable housing and what is happening locally. They are deeply committed to social justice, and we had great discussions. Every voice, every opinion was listened to with respect, and there was great follow-up by all committee members. It was a real team effort, and I think we had really great communication. That's always one of the hardest things, 2s but I think we certainly tried our best. Keith looked after the technology for our virtual meetings and our shared documents, and we shared through the conc with the congregation, because with eblast in our Friday email a minute for mission during services, including video messages from the organizations, we sent paper copies to all Trinity members and provided updates at board meetings. We really wanted to invite the congregation to go on this learning journey with us. 1s Yeah. And again, that's great because 2s in my experience working with churches, there can be a small group of somebody who's passionate about either an issue or a particular topic. But to actually have an entire congregation would be sort of insider church lingo for the community. The quote, unquote membership 2s to actually be really intentional about inviting the entire congregation on this, not just kind of having this be sort of a special project over here to the side or that meets in this room once. A week or that does a zoom call, but to actually follow up and invite both the learning journey and, of course, the investment in terms of time and resources and finances, to invite the whole membership of the community to be a part of it. I think that's an important thing not to overlook other churches or community groups who are interested in doing this work or again, individuals that can invite people in their sphere to come along in this. Because it is clear that this is such a huge I won't even say the topic this is such a huge problem, 1s the problem of housing justice or rather of housing injustice where we live, that we need more and more. People, as many people as we can who understand the issue, understand that it's a continuum, that it's not just about high prices for people who want to buy property, but that it involves so many people who go unseen or fall through the cracks. And that between even. 1s Folks who are struggling to buy property because of housing prices and 3s traditional expressions of housing insecurity or street involved people that we might see in our neighborhoods or 2s at intersections needing support and assistance, there's a whole range of folks who are struggling with this issue in between those two ends of the spectrum. And so for Trinity to be invested in getting to know this housing continuum and in

Adam Cresswell  19:38

 doing work to support multiple organizations. As you talked about community justice initiatives from Waterloo Region home Share and Youth, the tiny home takeout. Supportive Housing Waterloo. The work that Meno Homes is doing is to be able to respond to multiple levels, knowing that we can't do everything and no one organization will be able to solve this or to do everything but to have the learning. Journey. And the congregation know that this is not just an issue of high home prices or the person who needs some assistance when you come out of Costco, but that there's this whole world in between and this whole problem that often goes. 1s Kind of invisible to us for you. What personal connection, if any, do you have to this topic? Obviously you talked about being a vice principal 2s at a public school and coming to know families who are living in poverty. And again, as someone who 1s grew up not having certainly not having a ton of money to go around, but having our basic needs be able to be met growing up, I was one of those people who, as I went through school. Kind of also discovered that through friends of mine who I would have never known until we had a conversation or we got to know each other better, that there are so many young people and families who are struggling beyond just 2s which grocery store are they able to go to and are they able to go on vacation? There's so much kind of hidden poverty happening in families and particularly now with the cost of housing and rental housing being astronomical. So you talked a little bit about that, but are there other personal connections that you've had to this topic?

Cathy Baer 21:40

Well, Adam, I also have been very privileged and have always had the stability of a roof over my head and I've never been hungry, so I feel very fortunate. But through this learning journey, I have met firsthand people living in poverty. And I really was motivated. I wanted to know what I could do to help and I want to continue to learn more. And that's actually one of the reasons that our ad hoc committee recommended that we support organizations as opposed to giving the money all to one. Because then we can have a partnership, we can really learn as a congregation 2s what great work they do, what their needs are and how we respond. So I'm really looking forward to the learning journey that we're continuing to go on.

 Adam Cresswell 22:35

 Yeah. And that I sort of lit up when you said that word partnership and about the journey continuing because I think there are very classic might be too pretty of a word. There are very traditional models of quote unquote charity that we have learned are actually very unhelpful. And this kind of a more traditional kind of colonial model of 2s we'll just take money and of course, financial resources are critical to this problem, but we'll just take money and then we'll divest ourselves of it and we'll give it away and then we'll wash our hands and say we did a great thing. And again, it's great to give financial resources that's so critical, but to actually engage in, as you said, partnerships or coming from those of us who have a faith perspective as someone who spends a lot of time I do youth ministry stuff and I talk about Jesus all the time with young people. The critical nature in Jesus’ ministry of reciprocal relationships, of not having relationships of power and hierarchy, but loving others, serving relationships that go back and forth. And so to not just say, we can just put a rubber stamp on this and then move on and go back to business as usual. But to continue to engage, as you just mentioned, and to be in partnership with these organizations, I think is so critical. So that there is both 1s effectiveness to the work that's being done and the resources that are being invested, and also that it is the communities and those who are on the ground working with the communities who can teach us what is it that we need to do. We might have perceptions of what will solve problems like housing injustice, but to actually have those who are street involved, those who are on different spaces in the continuum of affordable housing. 1s To have them lead us in saying, here are the needs that we have and to have the dignity of being a partner with those people. Not sort of a hierarchy based relationship, but actually a reciprocal partnership and relationship I think is really, really important for churches and community groups and individuals to understand. And how do you see as someone who is a resident of what we now call Kitchener Waterloo, which is the traditional territory of the Haudenosaunee, the Anishnaabe and neutral peoples, how do you see housing injustice, or perhaps housing injustice played out in your local community in what we now call Kitchener Waterloo?

 Cathy Baer  25:38

 That's a great question, Adam. And I've only got the tip of the iceberg. Like, I feel like I have so much more to learn, but in my learning so far, I certainly I knew that there were a lot of organizations supporting and doing the great work. I had no idea how many. And that was a huge learning curve for me. 1s I certainly heard from all of the organizations that more government funding is needed. 1s Long wait lists for affordable housing and for mental health supports. One thing that I didn't know is that we need to find more affordable housing for families. So not just a single bedroom, but two- or three-bedroom units. And something that I learned today, or sorry, this year in particular, was how much more support is needed to help tenants in affordable housing remain

 Adam Cresswell  26:36

 housed. Yes, that there are many great organizations working to create the spaces and renovate the buildings and get people into spaces, but that it is not as simple as once someone has a roof over their head, 2s whether that is a tiny home or a situation like 1s a better tent city or any of the other encampments. It's not just a matter of well, as long as there is some wood or tile or shingles over their head, Great. The problem is solved. And those people are on the road to being able to have success. That actually people being able to remain housed, whether it's individuals, families. 1s That is a huge 1s issue that needs attention and resources and investment. And I think that's another thing that community groups and local churches can think about is they say, well, what is it that we can do about this issue? That they may look at organizations that help get people into housing, which is important, and they may look at organizations like Indwell, like the Working Center. These are organizations that are in what we now call Kitchener Waterloo that really work in an ongoing way with helping people, 1s I shouldn't say helping with working with people to get them on the road to success and to overcome the challenges that our systems have placed in front of them. So I think that's a really great thing. Remaining housed is 1s as big and in a way, a more complex issue that needs great people to invest in it than even just getting people into housing. What are some examples of some positive development, some positive change that you've seen or become aware of when it comes to housing? Justice in Kitchen Waterloo or in the process Province of Ontario?

 Cathy Baer  28:45

 What I like to sort of focus on is some of the projects that local churches have embarked on and very, very creative solutions. So, for example, St. Peter's Lutheran Church and has a partnership with Indwell to renovate part of their building to make way for 43 supportive, affordable rental units. St. Paul's Evangelical Lutheran Church partner with Menno Homes to build an affordable housing structure at Bridgeport and Lancaster that includes 48 rental units. But it also includes multipurpose spaces that has worship space for St. Paul's and a space for a new home for parents for community living, which I think is a great example of building community. And then I also think of Indwell and how they are renovating the St. Mark's Lutheran building near Grand River Hospital, creating 43 supportive, affordable rental units. So I'm very impressed and continue to be 1s looking forward to other churches or other creative solutions as how we really build community.

 Adam Cresswell  29:55

 Yeah. And that's I think that's something that's important to highlight and is one that people, if they attend a church or a united church, may have seen that in the news of there are a ton of church churches who are having to reimagine what it is to be a church in the sense of a local worshiping 1s body and including also churches who are at the end of their lifespan and are now considering what they do 1s as they put the community into retirement, so to speak, and have property and have a building. And so the ability to consider 1s leveraging resources of either a congregation that's reimagining or a congregation that is ending its time together to respond to housing justice, which, again, you don't just have to be in places like Toronto or Hamilton or Kitchen Waterloo. There is a need for affordable housing across this country. And so the ability to consider, as those decisions are being made about property and about buildings, 2s how the issue of housing justice could be addressed through the work, and as well, how reconciliation and decolonization and working with Indigenous. Communities first and to consider Landback as ways to faithfully continue to carry out, whether it's in the reimagining or in sort of the retirement of the congregation. Faithfully carry out what I would hope would be the mission of many congregations is a really important thing. And I know that Trinity, of course, in their history in the last few years in reimagining what Trinity was going to be in the future and in, frankly, kind of divesting themselves of a building, was able to also engage. So I do just want to highlight that Trinity has done work even before this committee as well, being one of the churches that pioneered that, of having affordable rental units as part of 2s what took place on the property after Trinity left it at Frederick Street. And it's great to hear about and to highlight St. Paul's, St. Peter's, St. Mark's. And I know that there are others as well that are able to, in their reimagining of the future, really address this topic in different ways. So that's really great because I think probably 2s a lot of folks from different United Church land are some of our listeners here. And so that's a really helpful kind of connection point. But we know as well that this problem isn't all forward momentum. What is one example of a negative or a worsening development that you've seen when it comes to housing justice in Kw or in Ontario?

 Cathy Baer  33:02

 Yeah, well, the first thing that comes to mind is the Bulldozing of the Homeless Encampment last November of 2021. I just felt it showed a lack of respect for those calling that location their home and a lack of respect backed for their belongings. So 1s that certainly is what comes to mind when I think of a negative.

 Adam Cresswell  33:28

 Yeah. And we know that there is an upcoming, depending on when you're listening to this, an upcoming decision on the Community that is on Victoria Street, the Encampment that is on Victoria Street. And we've seen in the news, particularly in places like Toronto, but also in places like Kitchen Wire, Lou and Hamilton, really the criminalization of homelessness where street involve people and folks who don't have housing because of a system that completely prevents them from getting a leg up, whether that is because of financial situation or mental health. Folks who are not able to go into the traditional models of supportive housing, whether that's shelter or otherwise. Essentially. Yeah. Having their space criminalized and having their possessions destroyed and stolen. And so, the ability for, I think, community members and especially, I think I know in this chat, because we're coming from a year’s experience at a local church. Folks who are local churches can be huge advocates and allies and can show up when those decisions are happening or 2s when there are 1s operations going on to assault those communities or to destroy those communities. Local churches and particularly faith leaders can be Huge Allies in Standing up for Encampments and against the Criminalization of Encampments and Homelessness. And of course, we know that we all want to see no one wants to see Encampments be the long term solution. But as winter approaches and as we continue to not have the supports we need, and in a place such as what we now call kitchen Waterloo, where street involved people or what we traditionally call homelessness has tripled in the last couple of years, we know that we need to do better than simply criminalizing folks who. Their best 1s step forward right now is to be able to live outdoors. And so we need something better than simply destruction and assaults on these encampments and so church goers and faith leaders and community leaders. Showing up for those is a huge way to support those encampments. 2s What have you learned about this topic? Maybe that was new to you or that was surprising through being a part of the affordable housing community. What was maybe something that you thought, wow, before that, I had no idea of X.

 Cathy Baer  36:34

 And I think it really when I thought about affordable housing, I was just thinking of the building. But what I've learned is that anyone living in an affordable housing location needs at home, supportive housing support is readily available and so that the tenants in affordable housing can remain housed. And we've heard that from a number of the organizations that we're partnering with. And so that was something. It's not just the building that's needed, it's the support to support the tenants in the building that's equally as important.

 Adam Cresswell  37:11

 Yeah. And what's something that maybe surprised you as you learned about this? Well, I knew we had long wait lists for affordable housing 1s and for waitlists for mental health supports. I had no idea how long, like some of our organizations were saying, some of their tenants were waiting seven years, sometimes longer than that, depending on the person's needs. And the pandemic has made this situation much worse.

 Cathy Baer  37:43

 So we thought in 2021 that this was a really was a crisis 1s for our medical profession, and yet it's worse this year. So that is something that I learned well.

 Adam Cresswell  37:59

  And when you say 2s it almost passes by me quickly when you can just throw out a number like seven years. But if you think about if you were an individual or if you're someone with a family, if you had one week where you didn't know where you were going to go or how to have safety and housing, one week would feel like a lifetime. And so to think seven years, seven winters, seven potentially blistering hot summers, it's almost for those of us who live in such privilege, it's almost unimaginable. And so the need to be able to 1s stare this issue in the face and say that, and particularly to say to community leaders and those with resources to help, that that should be beyond unacceptable. Seven years, depending on a person's need for someone to have a housing that is searching for it, that is really staggering. 3s As we head towards the conclusion here, we've covered a lot of ground and chatted a lot about the process that Trinity went under, things that you learned, positive changes, negative changes that we've seen in terms of housing justice. So all that can be really, really overwhelming, even just in the form of the last 40 minutes of us chatting. So if we could take your learnings and this experience and 1s the stuff that you shared today and kind of distill it down to asking what can regular people so someone who maybe they don't lead an organization or maybe they aren't able, because of their work and family and life situation, to even volunteer in an organization or to show up when an encampment is threatened. What can regular people, whether they are churchgoers or simply members of the community, do to make positive change with the issue of housing justice?

Cathy Baer  40:10

That's a great question, Adam. I certainly don't have a full or complete answer for you, but I can share a little bit of what I've learned along the learning journey that I've had. First and foremost, is to read and learn about the organizations who support our most vulnerable community members. And that is one of the reasons why Trinity gave to multiple organizations rather than just a lump sum to one organization, so that we could all learn 1s about as many organizations as we could. Ask the organization what they need volunteers? Do they need donations of food or supplies? Do they need monetary donations? And then respond as you are able. Spread the word about the work that the organizations are doing. If you want to make a donation and you're not sure where to donate, consider reaching out to the Waterloo Region Community Foundation at WRCF. CA or a donation to an organization through their website. And we have an election coming up later in October. Really know what the candidates stand for and exercise your rights. Eight to vote.

 Adam Cresswell  41:25

 Awesome. Yes, 1s there's certainly more than that, but that is a really great kind of comprehensive set of things that everyday people can do. And I think the, yes, you talked about, again, asking what the organizations, what they need, so understanding that it's the community members and the folks who are in relationship who have the best ideas of what can actually be effective in helping and, 1s and again, talking, talking, spreading the word, talking about these organizations, talking about this issue. I know that when it comes to the issue of, of the climate crisis, well, Katherine Heho will chat about who's a, who's a speaker and an educator on the topic that people, 80% of people are worried about the climate crisis, but only something like 10% of people talk about it. And I might be off on those stats, but I think that really applies as well to the issue of housing justice. The more we can have conversations around the dinner table, or after church, at coffee hour, or when you're, I guess, at work, people don't really have water coolers anymore. Maybe they do, but standing around on break to be able to talk about this issue, I think is a huge thing that we can do. And especially then, you also mentioned being able to give financial resources and being able to use your vote. And I think it's easier for us in high profile elections, whether that's federal or provincial. But so much happens at the local and municipal level, at who your city councilors are, who your school board trustees are, to a lesser extent, and who your mayoral candidates are. That is a huge 1s make or break for folks. Because, yes, there are ways that our federal government needs to address this, and certainly there are ways our provincial government can and should be addressing this, but it also needs to take place at the local and municipal level. It's so much easier for a local election to go by and across many, many places in Ontario right now, this October of 2022, those elections are approaching. And so, to know, to be able to invest the time and say, I'm not just going to let the city councillor vote and the mayoral vote pass me by. But if you're passionate about this issue and if you believe we need to do something about housing justice to see what the candidates say about this issue and if they don't to show up to those meetings or to show up afterwards to city council meetings and to press local leaders to have ideas, to have answers, and to have plans for how they're going to address it is so, so critically important. And it will affect the lives of those in your municipal, local community who are struggling with housing affordability and with being street involved in housing and security. So I think that's a really great list that you've laid out of ideas as we close here. Kind of one last question. What is one thing that you would want people who are listening to walk away knowing about housing justice? At the end of this podcast,

Cathy Baer 44:45

I've been thinking a little bit about this, so it's going to be a bit of a run on sentence. Sorry about that. 2s It was hard to come up with one concise sentence. I certainly think it's a very complex situation. There's no easy solution. We really need to listen to the voices of our most vulnerable community members and support the local organizations doing the hard work, advocate for those less fortunate. And I also think it's important that those of us who have privilege recognize that we have privilege. And to use that privilege to positively impact our most vulnerable members of our community.

Adam Cresswell 45:25

Yes. To leverage what we have to be able to stand in solidarity. And I think 1s that's beautiful and powerful. And in some ways, some people, you might say that that's simple, but not easy. But I think for those who are listening, who are churchgoers, I think and I'm one of those people I think it's critical to our discipleship, it's critical to our life of faith that we are in solidarity with those who are targeted by the system and are made to be marginalized by unjust systems. And so I think that's really powerful for folks who are faith based people and for anyone who believes that we can and should and must do more for housing justice in this country. And I will walk away really thinking about what you chatted about your time as. 1s As a vice principal at a public school and those young people, children, families who are struggling through, in many ways, an invisible poverty. But they're your classmates, they could be your neighbors. And so to remember that this is something that probably impacts everyone personally in a way, whether they realize it or not. It is likely that everybody here listening knows someone who is struggling with housing injustice, 1s whether it's what we now call Kitchen Waterloo, or what we now call Ontario, or what we now call Canada. And so I'm really grateful for your work with Trinity, Cathy, and for your investment in coming here today and laying out what regular folks, whether they're churches or community groups or individuals, can do and for sharing what you have learned through this process. Because for all of us who go, well, I'm really passionate about this, or I really think something needs to be done, but I'm just a regular person and I'm not an expert. You, Cathy, are a great example, as are the other folks on the committee, to say you don't have to be an expert to be able to invest time and energy and resources into making positive change. And so if you're listening, Kathy, is the example that we're not off the hook. Me and you are listening. We're not off the hook if we're not experts or we just consider ourselves ordinary people. Because great people who are not experts like Kathy are doing incredible work and continuing their journey. And so, I'm very grateful for you coming on today and even more grateful for the work that you and the committee are doing. Kathy, thanks so much for being here.

Cathy Baer 48:10

 Oh, you're very welcome, Adam. And I appreciate the opportunity to share a little bit of the learning journey that I've been on. I am very passionate about this and my learning journey really is just beginning. And so thank you very much for your time as well. Awesome. Thanks very much for listening, everyone, and we will see or you'll hear from us next time.

 Adam Cresswell 48:32

 Bye.