Episode 2: Mike Morrice

Adam [0:23]: Hey everybody. My name is Adam Cresswell and I am your host for this podcast, which we call Winter Is Coming, a housing-justice podcast. We are going through multiple conversations over the coming weeks and the weeks preceding this, around this topic of housing justice and what does that look like? And this week we are super grateful to be joined by federal MP and Green Party representative Mike Morrice, who is the MP for Kitchener Centre. And it's awesome. Last week we had the provincial MP, Laura Mae Lindo, chatting with us, and now we have Mike, both representing Kitchener Centre, both doing tremendous work in our community, and as well in Queens Park or in the House of Commons. And Mike has come in just off of day with a tonne of votes in the House of Commons. So, Mike, thanks for being here with us today.

Mike [1:26]: I'm really glad you're having me as part of the conversation. Wonderful to be with you Adam, and looking forward to it.

Adam [1:34]: Awesome. Before we get into chatting about housing and how that intersects with your life and your work locally in K-W when you're there, and of course, in the House of Commons, we usually start off just hearing a little more about yourself, and I try to intentionally not ask the question, what do you do? Because A, usually we already know that, and then B, we find it to be more interesting just to hear a little about yourself and what you're passionate about in life.

Mike [2:10] Yeah, right on. Well, for my part, I guess I can talk about why I got into this to begin with. It's a pretty toxic place in Ottawa, right? But I think it's important because this is where decisions are getting made that affect our community in really significant ways. Housing is one example and so I really appreciate that there are a mix of people here (in Ottawa). It's not only lawyers. Myself, I identify as an activist, a social entrepreneur. And now I feel like this is an opportunity to take the platform that this elected office holds to bring forward campaigns that would improve the lives of folks back home. And that's a real sacred privilege. It's a real honour as a result of having the trust of so many members of our community. Before being elected, I started a non-profit called Sustainable Waterloo Region while coming out of university. I went to Wilfrid Laurier. I was upset about the climate crisis as an undergraduate student. 2007-08 is when we started Sustainable Waterloo Region with the sense that we might not be able, some friends and I, to participate in these global climate negotiations, but we could have an effect in our community. And we sought to get businesses to be part of the solution to the climate crisis, setting targets and reporting back and ended up taking that work from our communities and then sharing it with other communities across the country. And so I spent over a decade in that work and ended up here as a result of feeling that if we don't address the rules of the game, we will never move quickly enough when it comes to social justice. We need climate justice, the right to housing, all of these things. The rules of the game are decided by parliamentarians here in Ottawa as well as at Queens Park. And that's what motivates me to try to find solutions that would address the challenges we're facing.

Adam [4:30]: Awesome. And because we're able to chat directly with you today, I think it would be interesting to know what the day-to-day routine is like for an MP. You can watch CPAC and you can see what the House looks like. And we know, as I said today, there were a lot of votes in the House and you were in your seat. Outside of that, what is the day-to-day like for you there?

Mike [4:56]: Well, as I share this, I should also share that our democracy is for everyone. And so that means the House of Commons is free. It's open if anyone happens to be visiting family or friends in Ottawa during the parliamentary year. So between September and June I encourage you to reach out to my office. We would be glad to even give you a bit of a tour. If you'd rather just come on by you can also do that. Question period is from 2 until 3 pm or so, most weekdays, if you want to see more of the fireworks. But our democracy really is for everyone. I should also add that to me, a really critical part of my job is actually when I'm back home knocking on doors at community events. This role to me is about listening to our community, taking what I hear and amplifying that to policymakers here in Ottawa. And so my days when I'm here are primarily focused on bringing forward our priorities on the floor of the House of Commons. That could be in debate when we're discussing legislation, could be in question period, could also be at committee in smaller groups of MPs when we're studying a particular piece of legislation that's bringing forward an amendment or a position for folks to hear about and then to vote on. And so, yeah, the day really flows. (I spend) some time on the floor of the House of Commons, some time in committee, as well as (in) conversations and meetings with other MPs. In fact, part of the best (time) is outside the formality of it all, but in between meetings in the hall, having conversations with folks about campaigns we're trying to build support for. A brief example: we've been working really hard to get support for a guaranteed income for every person with a disability across the country. Folks with disabilities are disproportionately living in poverty. About 20% of the population has a disability. Forty per cent of those living in poverty have a disability. People are legislated into poverty right now, those on ODSP (Ontario Disability Support Program), for example. Some of the progress I've made on this, it's just been conversations, one MP at a time, that has led to 103 MPs vocalizing their support for the Canada Disability Benefit, a campaign that I've been at the forefront of since being elected just over a year ago. So hopefully that gives you a bit of a flavour of some of the day here. But yeah, most importantly of all, I think, is knowing that folks can show up and see their democracy for themselves, for better or for worse. As I mentioned, to start things off, it can be a pretty toxic, partisan place, and there's a lot of room for improvement when it comes to the way parliamentarians interact with one another.

Adam [8:10]: Yeah, that's honestly a really good picture of the landscape of what it's like to be there. And I do really appreciate the discipline and commitment and sacrifice it takes, especially coming from the space of community activist as you are, to enter into that fray. And I think like you said, we need more folks who come from more diverse backgrounds. Not that I don't have respect for lawyers too, but more diverse backgrounds who are able to sit there and come from different sectors and just have different backgrounds and experiences and relationships. I really appreciate what you are able to bring to the table, bring into the House like that. And you chatted a little bit about the strides being made to have a more just society for our neighbors who live with disabilities. We'll probably loop back around to that as we talk because it has a huge intersection, of course, with housing. And you mentioned ODSP as well. And so housing and income, this is all interrelated. But before we go deep into that, what was your first introduction to housing? And housing justice is a term that we talk about on this podcast as a way to open up the conversation and say, we want to look at something deeper than simply prices on houses. Or we want to look and not get settled into the idea that there's a crisis that can't be solved. And we want to look beyond just facets and say, what would it look like to have a society, to have neighbourhoods and cities and provinces and a country where housing is approached

in a just way, where housing is truly enshrined as a human right? We use this term housing justice. What was your first introduction to housing and to the idea of just housing? How did it first come to your attention? Maybe long before perhaps you were sitting in the House of Commons?

Mike [10:22]: Oh, for sure. First of all, I love that term. Housing justice is a great way to put it. For my part, it's just kind of my lived experience in our community, working alongside non-profit leaders like folks at the House of Friendship and the Working Centre, as well as those that are part of the Inner City Health Alliance, folks like those that work at Sanguen (Health Centre), learning from and alongside the incredible people on the front lines. And then I guess it's particularly the last three or four years. And that happened to coincide with when I started to knock on doors. I ran for the first time in 2019. But this crisis is particularly acute, right? Like the last point and count study this time last year showed a tripling from just over 300 to over 1,000 folks who are living unsheltered and experiencing homelessness in our community at a time when house prices have doubled. It's that exponential rise in the cost of housing, and the fact that it's almost like a tale of two cities for our community right now because there is some real prosperity in our community. Look at the tech community and the kind of wealth that's being generated. And there's room to be proud of the jobs that are being created and the entrepreneurial spirit of our community while also recognizing those who are being displaced, those on the margins, those who are being left behind at the same time.

Adam [12:12]: And then there's this growing disparity between the two.

Mike [12:19]: Absolutely. Yes. And that's right across our community. I'm encouraged. I was at an event just a few weeks ago, and it was one of the founders of a tech company. Didn't introduce himself as a founder. Just came up and said, “Mike, I want to hear about what you're doing on the housing crisis, and I want to know what I can do to help.” And so I think it's important that we make these connections too, that there are some in the tech community who are looking to lead and are recognizing the intersections. No one in our community is immune. I like talking about a nurse I spoke with this past summer who shared with me that she can't afford the cost of rent and she was moving to Stratford as a result. And so if you're concerned about wait times at the hospital, recognizing the connection between that and the housing crisis we're in, no one is immune. No one is buffered. And we all need to recognize that the way we respond to both the housing and the homelessness crisis in our community is already defining and will continue to define the kind of community we live in.

Adam [13:32]: Yeah, that was something that came up as I was talking with Laura Mae Lindo last week, understanding that it's easy to have a distance from this issue or to try and cordon it off and say, well, it only affects me in one way. If I'm someone who's able to enter, has the wealth and privilege and luck to enter the real estate market, you might think, well, it's mortgage prices, and then therefore the Bank of Canada interest rate and it's house prices that are really affecting me. But that's the end of the housing continuum, and it's one stop along the way of this problem that is sprawling all over. And so to recognize that not only do we not have distance, like you said, from something, that how it intersects with health care, it intersects with our neighbours. And so understanding that there are people who are not just members of the community in this abstract way, but living and seeing these people as our neighbours. And for those of us who come from a faith background and have kind of a neighbour-love ethic or grounding to us, I think that's something that we need to lean into more because it does, as Laura Mae Lindo talked about. It's about imagining a different kind of community that we can have, one that hopefully we all want.

Mike [15:05]: 100 per cent.

Adam [15:06]: Obviously, we know kind of in a straightforward sense, you're able to be part of decision-making, and then, like you said, you were able to move closer to that table where some of those decisions are made. And even talking about in 2007, thinking, well, we're not at these kind of international deals. You're not quite there, but you're actually many steps closer than you were. And so we know decision-making is a big part of it. How does it intersect with your work on Parliament Hill or your work locally?

Mike [15:36]: Well, ironically, Adam, it kind of came full circle when I was elected last year. I went to the climate negotiations in Glasgow, Scotland, for the first time and got to report back to our community on some of the realities of what climate justice looks like if we were to be serious. Maybe we can come back to that conversation for a different day. When it comes to housing, I think it's really critical that we recognize that all three levels of government have a critical role to play in solving the crisis, and the federal government in particular has been, you know, dropping the ball for decades. Back in the early ’90s, I used to live in a housing co-op. I lived in the Brighton Yards in Uptown Waterloo for a number of years. And so housing co-ops are one example of not a fancy new idea, but back in the 1980s something like 6% of all new rental construction was cooperative housing because both the federal and the provincial governments were subsidizing building out co-op units across our community.

Adam [16:53]: Right.

Mike [16:54]: Well, as the result of a provincial election in the early 1990s, and this idea of some common sense revolution, that funding ended and in the years since it hasn't been backfilled. And so for decades we've seen provincial and federal governments not putting the necessary investments into affordable housing. Not only that though, they've also been creating rules that tilt the housing market in favour of really commodifying housing as an investment vehicle for investors to trade. And this is where I think things are going off the rails. And it's why I think when some people speak about supply and demand and they say, we just need to build more housing, it is an overly simplified perspective that doesn't take into account the ways that the market has been tilted in favor of commodification, of financialization. If we're going to say that housing is a human right, and the federal government has said that before, they need to then back it up. That means that homes should be places for people to live and not commodities for investors to trade. If you believe in that, then tell me why real estate investment trusts are getting tax exemptions that are allowing them to buy up billions of dollars worth of assets. As they do, they then raise the prices and sell it back onto the market, eroding the affordable housing stock we used to have. In fact, this is a motion I introduced just last week to say, should we tax the real estate investment trust like we tax any other corporation and use that money to build more affordable housing? Same thing for pension funds. This market has been, over time, progressively tilted in their favor. So from my perspective, using the tools I have available to me as a federal parliamentarian, those are the two angles I'm thinking about. How can I build support for more investments? Because the federal government has the largest spending power of any level of government. So we need the federal government at the table when it comes to building retrofitting, maintaining affordable units. But we also need the rules of the game to be set up in a way that prioritizes and leans towards homes as places to live in. I think about our parents. When our parents bought housing, they were competing with other people. Now it's like a Leafs (hockey) game. You're not competing with people. You're competing with corporations who are buying millions of dollars worth of housing. That's not regular supply and demand. So we’ve got to talk about supply for whom and markets that are set up for whom.

Adam [20:04]: Yeah. And you talk about the oversimplification when it's framed that way, and I think that's really important. I am in no way coming at this as an expert, but acting as a lot of our listeners are, which is a community member who sees a problem and wants to A, know more about it, and B, what can we actually do about this? And so I think it's encouraging, and it's helpful to understand how a lot of the ways that the problem is framed can themselves be quite skewed. If that's an oversimplification, I am willing to go out on a limb with another oversimplification: if we want to enshrine housing as a human right, it can't be a profit game at the same time. And it seems like that’s we're doing, especially if your read the headlines, and I think people get frustrated with politicians who reframe and spin things in ways that don't actually tackle the problem and create legislation or use funds in ways that have actually heated up the housing market over the past few years. Because these prices are so high, rental prices have soared too. I know folks personally, particularly in the Halton Region, the Greater Toronto region, families who are trying to find a way to pay $3,500, $4,500, $5,500 a month just for enough bedrooms for themselves and their kids and in a neighbourhood that is able to support them and has the amenities or public transit they need. So I find it refreshing to go deeper into the issue than just saying the answer is to build more. We talked last week with Laura Mae Lindo about newcomers to Canada who don't have extra support systems in place yet, who don't have family here yet and who are preyed upon by this system as well as by corporations who own rental properties or apartment buildings, who invest only in making sure that the grass out front of the building looks nice for when someone comes by for a viewing and that the hedges are trimmed but inside are doing nothing about water issues or heating issues or sanitation issues. And this is a problem I know that happens in Kitchener and happens in Halton. It happens in Hamilton, and I'm sure it happens all over. And it's something that I don't see being addressed at a federal or provincial level by the parties in power.

Mike [23:46]: It reminds me of a single mom I spoke with this past summer. She was in an affordable unit. The waitlist, as you know, is like eight years. So, she and her two daughters were in an affordable unit, but she shared that she's got mould in her unit, and her landlord knows there's no incentive to do anything about it. She's got nowhere else to go. And so this is also about power, dignity. Are we providing dignified housing and good options for tenants to ensure they can have their rights upheld? And again, that goes back to the rules of the game, and it goes back to those in elected positions who can and should be advocating for real solutions. There's no shortage of politicians who are willing to talk a good game on the rhetoric to provide affordable housing. And I'm hearing a lot of talk about seniors on fixed incomes or a young person living in a basement. Well, show me what you're actually going to do about it. And what are you not saying when you only talk about building? If we have all the one bedroom deluxe condos in the world built in our community, I'm not opposed to building more, but we've also got to talk about the three bedroom units that those newcomers might need or families in our community might need, and what are we doing to ensure that units remain deeply affordable over the long term?

Adam [25:24]: Yeah, and I think that's something people experience on a regular basis. And I know as someone who used to live in Toronto and eventually got priced out of living in Toronto… I also delivered furniture for years. I've been in these buildings before people go in when we're just doing the model on the ground floor that a designer is staging and just seeing that these are good for a single individual or perhaps two individuals, a couple living there, but there was nothing for families and very little for people who have mobility or accessibility needs or live with different disabilities. I know this is something that you're passionate about. I think you're doing really important work, particularly around combating this legislated poverty that people with disabilities live in. Can you talk a little bit about how you see that intersecting with housing as a right? This headline has gone around and has been communicated, I think, really well. Over the last couple of years CERB was rolled out (during Covid), recognizing that CERB exceeded standard ODSP. The Canadian Emergency Relief Benefit was important and I'm glad people received it, but it was more than the Ontario Disability monthly stipend. I have a friend who literally has a Go Fund Me campaign right now because ODSP just barely pays the rent before food or any other living expenses. To have to start Go Fund Me campaigns says a lot about where we're at. Can you talk a little bit about where you see housing intersecting with a more just society for our neighbours who live with disabilities?

Mike [28:29]: Well, going back to your non-partisan approach, (on your podcast) you've had two weeks back to back of two different parties at two different levels.

Adam [28:35]: Yeah, that's true. And we've got a municipal-council candidate next week. We're going all over.

Mike [28:43]: Love it. Let's be clear, though. The Ontario Disability Support Program right now is $1,169 for a single individual per month. And the current governing party, provincially, is bragging that they got pushed to increase it for the first time. It's not even indexed to inflation. Don't tell me politicians don't know how to do it. Salaries like mine as an MP are automatically indexed. They know exactly what to do when they're incentivized to do so. But a person on ODSP doesn't have that and now they're bragging about this 5% increase in the midst of 8% inflation. That's disgusting. And the shelter allowance is less than $500 a month. Go on Kijiji and find me an apartment in Kitchener for less than $500 a month. Obviously you can't. So that means that a person on ODSP living in legislated poverty is either unsheltered or being supported by a loved one, a family member, a friend, a faith community.

Adam [29:46]: $500 a month is, and I know this firsthand, what a family member gives you to rent out their apartment as a break because you're a family member. That is well below the threshold of anything that's actually available.

Mike [30:05]: It's part of why I'm working on this because it's just this very obvious moral imperative about, as a wealthy country, is it not obvious that we've got this gap in our social safety net, that a person with a disability is being forced to live in legislated poverty, and the federal government, unlike the provincial one, has promised to do better. So it's my view that we should be advocating at every single level. Someone with a disability or an ally of those with disabilities should be advocating provincially for the provincial government to double ODSP. As well, we can also be advocating to the federal government to supplement and follow through on a promise they made in the 2020 Throne Speech for what's now called the Canada Disability Benefit, to be a guaranteed supplement to ensure that every person with a disability across the country is lifted out of poverty. It's actually the first petition that I sponsored when I was elected this time last year, working with a group called Disability Without Poverty. I think it's really critical that we have folks with disabilities at the table leading the conversation.

Adam [31:21]: They are the voices we need to be listening to.

Mike [31:27]: Totally. Yeah. So they've got their 12 criteria of what they are looking for from the disability benefit. We got 18,000 signatories to that petition back in January of this past year. That gave us that much more attention from the media and in Question Period. The federal governing party promised pharmacare in 1997. So just because they promised a thing doesn't mean we can expect them to do it. But it does mean that we're not yelling into the void. It means that this is an opportunity to see a meaningful social reform brought forward on something to improve the lives of people in our community that they've said they're committed to. So, following that petition, there was a letter that went through the Senate, 43 senators signed on. I initiated a letter amongst other parliamentarians. Through that we had 76 sign on, plus another 30 some odd who vocalized their support, for 103 MPs. Another MP then proposed a unanimous consent motion where the entire House called on the government to fast track moving forward with the benefit. They finally reintroduced the bill this past June and for the first day of debate, it was up two weeks ago. I was up on the floor of the House just a few nights ago, following up to say, when are you going to bring it back? We tried to get another consent motion to move it right to committee and have amendments posed. A few Conservative MPs voted that down, however. We haven't seen any commitments in terms of emergency supports in the short term when they're going to fund it. And that's what I mean when I say, well, this is just bringing that campaign, using the platform that I and other MPs have, to apply respectful but assertive pressure on something that would improve the lives of folks with disabilities in our community and across the country. And tell me any MP who's going to go in front of the media and not talk about supporting people with disabilities. When you talk about finding common ground there's a lot of toxic partisanship here. But I think this is an area where we had members of every party vocalize their support for this, including the Conservatives and the Bloc as well as the governing Liberals. I'm hopeful that with continued pressure we're going to be able to move this ahead. I also believe in the power of our democracy. And so for those listening, if you want to support the issue, get an email to your MP. Their email address is just their first name, a period, their last name, the @ symbol, P-A-R-L as in Parliament, .gc as in government of Canada, .ca. So mine, for example, is mike.morrice@parl.gc.ca and let that person know, in your own words, why you care about moving forward on the Canada disability benefit. Maybe ask for a meeting so you can talk with them about it. That grassroots advocacy, that organizing the number of emails that have been sent to MPs, is leading towards more of them bringing up the disability benefit on the floor of the House of Commons, putting more pressure behind the scenes. And ultimately the hope is it's going to deliver the funds that are needed to lift up our friends with disabilities across the country.

Adam [35:04]: So much of what we have settled for, and we talked about this in last week's episode too, is these band-aid solutions or there's a deep importance to emergency responses and emergency shelter. But so much, I think, not just at a political level but I think for us as community members, it's easy for us to wash our hands of this when we see that an emergency shelter exists in our community, and certainly in Kitchener-Waterloo, there are incredible people, many of whom are volunteers, operating emergency shelters. But in so many ways, that becomes almost this de-sensitizing piece, this numbing piece that allows us to go, oh, yeah, well, there's a new shelter up, but that is meant to be an emergency response. That is not meant to be something that is actually tackling the problem. And so I know for myself, I'm definitely guilty of that, of settling for emergency responses, which are kind of the bare minimum of the starting point. And so when we talk about how we can look at things like starting with doubling ODSP and having communities and advocates and leaders of folks living with disabilities be at the forefront of telling us what needs to change, that these are people looking forward to something beyond just another emergency shelter. And folks at places like House of Friendship and Indwell and the Working Centre have been doing this work for years, and they've been doing work that's more expansive than simply the importance of emergency shelters. And my hope is that we can see more and more attention paid to how we actually work in solidarity to lift people out of poverty long term, not just in the immediate.

Mike [37:16]: In the meantime, the emergency shelter system is bursting at the seams. And folks that have walked through Victoria Park, or even more so at Victoria and Weber and seeing the encampments, you're aware of the dire situation that we're in both for more emergency supports and for longer term solutions to the housing crisis.

Adam [37:42]: And that's a good point because it's come up in our conversations so far and will continue to come up particularly in our local context of Kitchener-Waterloo. And if you're listening from beyond, if you're listening from Hamilton or Toronto or so many other places. We're seeing the need to respond to and support our neighbors who are living in encampments. Mike, what would you like to see in terms of the future of our neighbours living in encampments? Because we know, particularly for the encampment at Victoria and Weber Street, November is when regionally, municipally, decisions are being made about what the future of that is. What would you like to see in terms of how we are able to support and show up for our neighbours who live in encampments and the encampments themselves?

Mike [38:40]: I want to see municipal, provincial and federal leaders listening to those on the front lines who have been calling out the crisis for decades, and respond at the level that the need requires. If you look at the work that Joe and Stephanie Mancini have been doing since the early ’80s …

Adam [39:00]: These are the founders of the Working Centre?

Mike [39:10]: Yes. There is only so much that someone on the front lines can do without the right legislative tools and sufficient levels of investment. You mentioned Indwell as an example. They've got shovel-ready projects ready to go in two beautiful churches in the downtown. They need the funding to follow through on it. And so there is no shortage of those ready to dig in. But we need to be more honest about the extent of the crisis and both the funds and the legislation needed to address it, both in the short term and in the long term.

Adam [39:54]: Yeah. And I think that it's a great thing to highlight; the organizations that are there doing the work or trying to do the work or are ready to do more work. Trinity United Church, who's one of the producers and people who make this podcast possible. They are an example of a United Church that closed its doors. Its time with its original building was at an end. There's still a worshiping community that gathers both in person and online. And they were able to ensure that the new form of the property included affordable housing units. And knowing that even in that situation, there's lots of room for growth. And there's so much room, not just for a for-profit property company to have a small amount of units, but for organizations dedicated to affordable housing, whether it's building or co-op, as you talked about at the start, there's no shortage of organizations that can be can be doing this work. And I know that in so many ways the government, especially at the federal level, doesn't necessarily want to be in the business of actually doing all this work. But then to be able to say, okay, organizations like Indwell are ready to do this work, to connect those dots seems like a critical piece. And those different organizations exist in so many different communities across the country.

Mike [41:48]: Yes. And so we need to be championing organizations like Indwell, like K-W Habilitation, like Lutherwood, to be supporting them in getting access to the funding they need. And there are several funding envelopes federally to build out the units we need, to retrofit existing units and to keep them affordable over the long term. Can I offer a few things in closing? For folks who are interested, I mentioned Motion 71 earlier. You can find that for yourself if you Google my name and add Motion 71 or go to my website, MikeMorricemp.ca. That's the motion I've proposed on the floor of the House of Commons to more fairly look at taxing Real Estate Investment Trusts and directing those funds towards affordable units. People that have listened to you and I chatting about this for almost an hour are the kind of people who are really passionate about housing and might have a great idea they might want to share with both of us. And so for my part, if you wanted to share an idea, if you want to have a conversation, if you've got a project, you might just have a story that you want to share with me about your experience, feel free to reach out. I shared my email earlier. It's Mikemorrice@parl.gc.ca. Happy to find time for a phone call, for example. That's our democracy at work, recognizing we don't have to all agree on everything either. It's not a fairy tale, but I see it as my job to be listening to as many people in our community as possible, understanding the needs of our community and trying to, with the greatest fidelity possible, bring those stories, experiences to light here. I remember a person I spoke with last summer. He said to me at his door, “Mike, I don't know what a real estate investment trust is. My daughter can't afford to live in our community. I just want you to help address that.” And so for some folks, that's the end of it, right? You go do your job and figure out what it's going to take to ensure that housing stays or returns to some level of affordability. So if you've got something you want to share with me about it, feel free to reach out. I would love to hear from listeners, particularly those in Kitchener. That's my highest accountability. It's the reason I ran as a Green. I don’t have to give you a talking point.

Adam [44:14]: Which is refreshing.

Mike [44:20]: Yeah. The hope is I just don't want to become one of those spokespeople for a political party. I want to continue to be a representative for our community, to advocate for our community. And to me, the way I keep my feet on the ground and feel accountable is by hearing from folks directly and sharing back the work that is being done. If you wanted to hear more about Bill C 22, if you find me on Social, on Twitter or Instagram, it's @morricemike. You can see for yourself some of that advocacy, and again, you can reach out and let me know what you think and what you might want me to hear more of too. And then thanks to you all. This is my favourite, getting into a conversation with a little bit of nuance, with time to dig in a little bit with someone who cares about the issues. This is one of my favourite parts of what I'm doing these days. So thanks for the chance to be a part of the conversation, particularly knowing you've got different perspectives on the same issue. That's the kind of digging we need to have different perspectives and to understand how we can be part of mobilizing for the solutions on the housing crisis.

Adam [45:35]: Yeah, I think that's a great word to kind of sum it up. You've given us a lot of food for thought and vision for how we do that, for how we mobilize. Because I think that's one of the biggest things; we want to go beyond just being people consuming information and learning more. One of the goals of these conversations is not just to inform. We want to be well informed, but also to act together and mobilize. So I really appreciate that. Mike, just before you go, in a sentence or two, what is one thing you want people to walk away knowing about regarding housing justice? It can even be re summing up. Maybe something you've already mentioned?

Mike [46:20]: Yeah. If we're going to get housing justice in our community and across the country, we need to be holding elected leaders accountable to the simple idea that homes are places for people to live. They are not commodities for investors to trade. And we need to be keeping our elected leaders accountable to policies and investments that demonstrate they're ready to follow through on that fact. So that every person in our community, whether it's a senior on fixed income or a young person living in encampments, that they have access to dignified, quality and affordable housing that meets their needs.

Adam [47:05]: Awesome. I so appreciate your time and energy today and your work over the past year at the House of Commons in Ottawa, but also as a community member and an activist. And I know even deeper than what we got in this conversation, the ways that you have been supporting people in Kitchener-Waterloo and particularly in terms of supporting people with just housing. And so I want to say in closing, you yourself have been and again, no bias here because I'm not a journalist, you have been someone who has lived housing justice for many people, including people I know. So I'm very grateful for the work you do in your life and for the way you lead a life with that ethic of neighbour love at the core. I'm very grateful for your work, Mike.

Mike: [48:01]: Thank you so much, Adam. I appreciate that.

Adam [48:04]: Thank you so much for joining us this week. We'll have to see if we can catch you another time for conversation in our next batch of episodes. For everybody listening, we will be chatting next week with Steph Stretch, a Ward Ten candidate for council in Kitchener. So we'll be going from the provincial up to federal and then slide over to municipal next week as we continue to look at these multiple levels of governments. As Mike points out, we need to be working alongside the people in the front lines and us as community members. So for Winter Is Coming thanks again Mike Morrice for joining us. I am Adam Cresswell and we will talk to you next week. See you later.

Mike: [48:46]: Take care.